SG Talk

(22-07-2025, 07:10 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]No. You misunderstood.

Did Allah stop time in heaven?

(22-07-2025, 08:22 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Did Allah stop time in heaven?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

(22-07-2025, 08:19 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Could you please provide a verse from the Quran indicating that Allah communicates directly with Muhammad?

We have the Hadith Qudsi.

(22-07-2025, 08:21 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. .Ibn Kathir

Show me.

(22-07-2025, 08:27 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]We have the Hadith Qudsi.

The Hadiths have been altered, so thank you for confirming that, according to the Quran, Allah has never spoken directly to Muhammad.

(22-07-2025, 08:27 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Show me.

Yes, according to Ibn Kathir and many scholars, the Isra and Miraj (the Night Journey and Ascension) are understood by some as spiritual or visionary experiences rather than a purely physical journey. Ibn Kathir, in his tafsir, discusses different interpretations and emphasizes that the primary purpose of the event was to demonstrate Allah's power and to establish the spiritual significance of the Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) connection to the divine. 

While some traditions interpret the journey as a physical, literal event, others see it as a spiritual or mystical experience that symbolically represents the Prophet's ascension to a high spiritual state. Ibn Kathir's view aligns with the latter, highlighting the spiritual dimension rather than a strictly physical movement.

(22-07-2025, 08:37 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]The Hadiths have been altered, so thank you for confirming that, according to the Quran, Allah has never spoken directly to Muhammad.

So you know better than the billions of Muslims.

Ok noted.

(22-07-2025, 08:40 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, according to Ibn Kathir and many scholars, the Isra and Miraj (the Night Journey and Ascension) are understood by some as spiritual or visionary experiences rather than a purely physical journey. Ibn Kathir, in his tafsir, discusses different interpretations and emphasizes that the primary purpose of the event was to demonstrate Allah's power and to establish the spiritual significance of the Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) connection to the divine. 

While some traditions interpret the journey as a physical, literal event, others see it as a spiritual or mystical experience that symbolically represents the Prophet's ascension to a high spiritual state. Ibn Kathir's view aligns with the latter, highlighting the spiritual dimension rather than a strictly physical movement.

And you cannot even show me one who says it was a dream.

(22-07-2025, 08:40 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]So you know better than the billions of Muslims.

Ok noted.

In the Torah, God communicates directly with Moses; in the Gospel, God speaks to Jesus. However, in the Quran, there is no record of God speaking directly to Muhammad. .

Both the Torah and the New Testament depict God as a loving Father who addresses His people with care and compassion, referring to them as His children and Himself as Father. 

In contrast, the Quran suggests a relationship with God that is more akin to master and servant, implying that God cannot be seen as a Father in any relational sense.

If God does not speak to Muhammad directly, how đo we know that the revelation was indeed sent by Him?

(22-07-2025, 08:41 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]And you cannot even show me one who says it was a dream.

It can be a dream vision

(22-07-2025, 09:12 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]In the Torah, God communicates directly with Moses; in the Gospel, God speaks to Jesus. However, in the Quran, there is no record of God speaking directly to Muhammad. .

Both the Torah and the New Testament depict God as a loving Father who addresses His people with care and compassion, referring to them as His children and Himself as Father. 

In contrast, the Quran suggests a relationship with God that is more akin to master and servant, implying that God cannot be seen as a Father in any relational sense.

If God does not speak to Muhammad directly, how đo we know that the revelation was indeed sent by Him?

Allah communicates directly with the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم.

If you think you know better than all our Muslim scholars, go ahead and think that.

(22-07-2025, 09:14 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]It can be a dream vision

So you made another lie by saying our scholars say it was a dream.

When will you stop lying?

(22-07-2025, 09:17 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]So you made another lie by saying our scholars say it was a dream.

When will you stop lying?

A vision can manifest in a dream... Do you have a mind capable of offering you different scenarios rather than fixating on a single outcome? This is how stubborn and deluded people tend to be...

(22-07-2025, 09:16 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Allah communicates directly with the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم.

If you think you know better than all our Muslim scholars, go ahead and think that.

Then show me a Quranic verse that prove your claim that Allah spoke to Muhammad...I'm only asking for a simple evidence...

(22-07-2025, 09:39 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]A vision can manifest in a dream... Do you have a mind capable of offering you different scenarios rather than fixating on a single outcome? This is how stubborn and deluded people tend to be...

Did any of our scholars say it was a dream or not?

(22-07-2025, 09:41 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Then show me a Quranic verse that prove your claim that Allah spoke to Muhammad...I'm only asking for a simple evidence...

In the Quran, there is a part about the night journey.

(21-07-2025, 07:25 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Why? Because an innocent life was at stake...you advocate for the innocent Palestinians who died but could care less about the one replacing Jesus...that is double standard!

Palestinians are being killed at this very moment.

The crucifixion by the Romans was 2025 years ago.

(22-07-2025, 09:42 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Did any of our scholars say it was a dream or not?

Several scholars and commentators have suggested that the Night Journey (Isra and Mi'raj) of the Prophet Muhammad may have been a visionary or dream experience rather than a physical occurrence. Notable among them are:

1. **Al-Ghazali (1058–1111)**: The renowned Muslim theologian and mystic viewed certain visions and experiences of prophets, including Isra and Mi'raj, as possibly being spiritual visions or dreams rather than literal physical events. He emphasized the importance of inner spiritual realities in understanding such experiences.

2. **Ibn Taymiyyah (1263–1328)**: While Ibn Taymiyyah maintained the literal occurrence of Isra and Mi'raj, he also acknowledged that some interpretations consider the event as a spiritual or visionary experience, especially to reconcile different theological perspectives.

(22-07-2025, 09:57 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]1. **Al-Ghazali (1058–1111)**: The renowned Muslim theologian and mystic viewed certain visions and experiences of prophets, including Isra and Mi'raj, as possibly being spiritual visions or dreams rather than literal physical events. He emphasized the importance of inner spiritual realities in understanding such experiences.

Where did you get that from?

Can we see any writings from al-Ghazali where he said it was a dream?

(22-07-2025, 09:45 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]In the Quran, there is a part about the night journey.

 Show me what Allah said to Muhammad from your Quran.

You are unable to demonstrate to me that the revelation is from God.  
You cannot provide proof from the Quran that God has spoken to Muhammad.

(22-07-2025, 10:00 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Where did you get that from?

Can we see any writings from al-Ghazali where he said it was a dream?

Whether it was a dream, vision or spiritual experience..they conclude that it is not physically!
Don try to score some meaningless cheap points

(22-07-2025, 09:56 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Palestinians are being killed at this very moment.

The crucifixion by the Romans was 2025 years ago.

So you are saying a life lost 2000+ years back is not important to a life that is lost today? These are innocent lives! Where are your moral values?

(22-07-2025, 10:01 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Whether it was a dream, vision or spiritual experience..they conclude that it is not physically!
Don try to score some meaningless cheap points

So you cannot find a single scholar who said it was a dream.

So you lied, again.

(22-07-2025, 09:56 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Palestinians are being killed at this very moment.

The crucifixion by the Romans was 2025 years ago.

If the Israelis cease their killings for a month, can I then apply your standard and overlook the innocent Palestinians who lost their lives in the month before that?

(22-07-2025, 10:04 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]So you are saying a life lost 2000+ years back is not important to a life that is lost today? These are innocent lives! Where are your moral values?

I'm saying I do not know what happened 2025 years ago, and it is pointless to advocate for something I do not know.

As for the genocide in Palestine, which you justified, it is happening today.

(22-07-2025, 10:06 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]If the Israelis cease their killings for a month, can I then apply your standard and overlook the innocent Palestinians who lost their lives in the month before that?

No, that is not my standard.

(22-07-2025, 10:04 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]So you cannot find a single scholar who said it was a dream.

So you lied, again.

That is why I said you don even know your own scriptures that well that you feel you have achieved enough to poke your nose into other people's affairs

In terms of how this journey was, scholars ‎held two views:‎

The first:‎

The journey of Isra’ and Mi’raj involved ‎both the body and soul of the Prophet ‎while he was awake.‎

This is the majority of scholars' view and is ‎the most correct and chosen for Fatwa.‎

Second opinion:‎

The journey of Isra’ and Mi’raj was in the soul ‎of the Prophet only or as a dream.

(22-07-2025, 10:10 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]That is why I said you don even know your own scriptures that well that you feel you have achieved enough to poke your nose into other people's affairs

In terms of how this journey was, scholars ‎held two views:‎

The first:‎

The journey of Isra’ and Mi’raj involved ‎both the body and soul of the Prophet ‎while he was awake.‎

This is the majority of scholars' view and is ‎the most correct and chosen for Fatwa.‎

Second opinion:‎

The journey of Isra’ and Mi’raj was in the soul ‎of the Prophet only or as a dream.

Please show me which scholar said that and the book they wrote.

(22-07-2025, 10:10 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]... poke your nose into other people's affairs

When did I ever do that?

(22-07-2025, 10:08 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I'm saying I do not know what happened 2025 years ago, and it is pointless to advocate for something I do not know.

As for the genocide in Palestine, which you justified, it is happening today.

So you do believe what the Quran says....it says that someone who resembled Jesus was crucified in his place....